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Ben Shapiro and John MacAuthur Video

✇Being Berean - Being Berean Home
By: danwillie@danwillie.net (danwillie)

Ben Shapiro and John MacAuthur YouTube Video. Click the link below to see it.

https://youtu.be/fr95oTGqnVQ

This was an excellent interview between a Jew and a Christian. I Pray for Ben often and Thankful for all that John did while here on earth.John is in heaven with the Lord now. This is Ben's transcript.

Chapter 1: Introduction

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it just so happens that the politicians have basically co-opted sin and turned
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it into their platform which forces people who understand a biblical definition of sin to be the enemy it's
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not we're trying to take over the world it's not we're trying to take over the United States it's we're just trying to uphold
25 seconds
righteousness John MacArthur is an American Pastor prolific author and the host of the national Christian radio and television program grace to you he's been the pastor of Grace Community
33 seconds
Church a non-denominational church in Sun Valley California since 1969 and serves as the chancellor amortis of the Masters University and Seminary in Santa
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Clarita since completing his first bestselling book The Gospel According To Jesus in 1988 John has written nearly 400 books of biblical commentary on
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themes such as finding truth in our modern world the shaping of the 12 apostles and extraordinary women of the Bible his expositional preaching and deep theological insights have made him
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one of the most respected and influential Evangelical leaders of our time during the covid-19 pandemic he made headlines for his Defiance of lockdown orders arguing the government

Chapter 2: COVID legal battle

1 minute, 4 seconds
had overstepped its bounds in restricting religious gatherings Los Angeles County sued MacArthur's church for refusing to close down according to local mandates MacArthur and his
1 minute, 12 seconds
congregation held their ground countersuing and winning by utilizing precedent set by a Supreme Court decision ruling that certain Public Health restrictions could not be applied
1 minute, 19 seconds
to houses of worship Los Angeles County ultimately settled the suit paying $800,000 in legal fees to Grace Community Church in today's episode we
1 minute, 26 seconds
discussed the decline of religious life in the west and the degradation of Biblical teaching and American churches John also addresses the challenges of convincing the upcoming generation to
1 minute, 34 seconds
live a life of Faith the importance of cultivating a sense of community membership and the Christian understanding of the Jewish people this is a conversation you don't want to miss
1 minute, 41 seconds
welcome to another episode of the Sunday
1 minute, 43 seconds
[Music]
1 minute, 49 seconds
special Pastor mccartha thanks so much for joining the show really appreciate it oh it's my pleasure good good to be with you again so let's start with sort

Chapter 3: Decline of religion

1 minute, 59 seconds
of the status of religion and Christianity in particular in in modern America obviously I mean obviously those of us who believe in the Bible whether
2 minutes, 8 seconds
we agree on the New Testament we'll get to I'm sure in a little bit but those who believe at least partially in the Bible biblical morality let's say we we've been lamenting the downfall of
2 minutes, 17 seconds
church attendance in the United States the the lack of biblical adherence in the United States over the course of the last several decades and we're seeing all of that come to a head do you think
2 minutes, 25 seconds
that's a trend that is going to continue and if so how exactly do we reverse the decline well it's obviously a trend and uh there
2 minutes, 34 seconds
may be a number of things contributing to it I don't want to get too technical but first of all many many churches have
2 minutes, 41 seconds
lost their sense of transcendence it's it's like going to a rock concert um it's like going to a TED
2 minutes, 48 seconds
Talk um it's like going to hear somebody tell you you're really a wonderful person and you can speak your own world into existence uh it's it's
2 minutes, 57 seconds
psychological sociological games but it lacks the Transcendence it lacks the sense of connecting with god with
3 minutes, 7 seconds
finding reality in an invisible means of support Beyond yourself so many churches
3 minutes, 14 seconds
are I mean they're pumping the Prosperity Gospel you get what you want or or they're just talking about being a
3 minutes, 21 seconds
better human being and that just doesn't lift you up that doesn't Elevate you that doesn't take away the fear of death
3 minutes, 28 seconds
that that does not give you some kind of existential reality that you can cling to that transcends life and I think
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another reason people don't go to church is because it's it's so confusing so what what is the form of
3 minutes, 43 seconds
Christianity that um represents accurately the scripture and the word of God I think another thing that
3 minutes, 50 seconds
contributes to indifference toward church is the crushing disintegration of the family and people are finding their
3 minutes, 59 seconds
Community online uh the they create their own fantasy Community they create their
4 minutes, 6 seconds
own you know virt virtual world of relationships so they they don't need
4 minutes, 13 seconds
real Community they're not dependent on the intimacy of of and many of them don't even understand what that intimacy
4 minutes, 21 seconds
is because of the breakdown of the family so and there's also an effort to destroy anything traditional anything
4 minutes, 28 seconds
historic anything ancient um anything even you know 10 years ago in favor of
4 minutes, 36 seconds
whatever the new Zeitgeist is so there's so many things that assault the the church those are some of the things that come to mind so the the biggest decline
4 minutes, 45 seconds
that we've been seeing in terms of religious adherence in the United States and the most important has been in Protestant denominations you know obviously Jews represent a very small
4 minutes, 52 seconds
fraction of the population Catholics represent still a a fairly small minority of the population religiously in the United States it's been the
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secular decline in Protestants adherence over the course of the last 50 years that really has been devastating for the
5 minutes, 7 seconds
nation so for for people who are looking at protestantism you asked the question before and and I'll I'll ask you how
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does somebody who's interested in going to church determine what is a Bible believing church that's worth their time versus a church that maybe has a pride
5 minutes, 22 seconds
progress flag hanging off the door and claims to be speaking in the name of the gospels so Le let's go to to the real issue here

Chapter 4: Role of the church

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um a church that is faithful to scripture a synagogue that is faithful to scripture Bears moral Authority I
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mean it exists to say this is what the Lord has said this is what God requires this is divine mandate this is the
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morality that leads to blessing and Disobedience and disregard for this morality leads to cursing you could say
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so the bottom line is if you're living in the culture that we're living in where you want absolute freedom to do anything you choose to do
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to um establish your own set of rules your own truth your own standards of
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morality the last thing you want is to step into some place that's going to call into question everything you're
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choosing to do in your life and is going to exercise authority over you um the the church to be the church and I think
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this is true in Judaism with a synagogue if you're going to be a faithful Old Testament synagogue then you have to lay
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down the law of God if you're going to be a faithful Church you have to lay down the standard and it it is not to
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crush people it is to is to bring them into divine blessing I mean that goes back to Deuteronomy right do this and
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you'll be blessed don't do this and you'll be cursed so I think because the the natural Fallen
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heart is bent towards sin the church is not an inviting place to go if it's
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faithful to proclaim the scripture because then that brings people under guilt and why would they go to to be
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basically held up before God and threatened with judgment but that's the message of the
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church and that's what leads to the good news of the Gospel that Christ died to pay the penalty for your sin and through
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him you can have complete forgiveness of sin so that the church becomes um the the family of the forgiven and and all
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the blessings of God are dispensed there so how much of this how much of this is going to be self-correcting and what needs to happen in terms of church in

Chapter 5: Importance of leadership

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the United States in order to fix it actively because you know one of the problems that is faced by I think protestantism in in certain senses
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Judaism not as much by Catholicism which has a central ized Authority obviously Catholicism theoretically can enforce from the top although in increasingly
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they're not doing so protestantism by nature is is much more diffused in terms of sources of authority that there there are a variety of pastors who are
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interpreting in a variety of ways Judaism has something similar there's no hierarchical structure so given the lack of hierarchy how exactly can you ensure
8 minutes, 21 seconds
that more churches are are spreading the gospel and by the same token is it just a matter of waiting until people become disillusioned with secularism and find
8 minutes, 29 seconds
of wander their way back to the proper Church well there's certainly some truth in that but Hosea said it in a simple statement he said like people like
8 minutes, 38 seconds
priests I mean the people can't rise higher than whoever the spiritual authorities are in their life I mean when you when you've got a guy like the
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the case that's going on with that Miller guy down in in the South where his wife committed suicide and all these
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horrible things going on around that and that guy is a p um what what would we expect to come out
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of that except the chaos that manifests itself eventually and time and Truth go hand inand you you can't you can't hide forever so I I think that the the
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primary issue is leadership I mean it's the same thing in any field you never rise higher than the leadership I we
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know that politically we know that in in every aspect of life business education and everything so I think the church
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suffers from really really chaotic inconsistent leadership um the the the church you
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know if you're dealing with people with deep needs hurts pains illnesses this is
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a perfect place to become rich at the expense of those people that you abuse
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and so people counterfeit religion and they make themselves Rich so you're trying to sort out not not only the
9 minutes, 57 seconds
false leaders but the weak leaders the Unfaithful leaders the the the the
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untrained leaders so that that is really the issue in Christianity I had a reporter asked me one time who who is in
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charge of the of the Christian Movement and I said well unfortunately U nobody is in charge of
10 minutes, 19 seconds
that movement um and it's that um that is on the one hand um good because you
10 minutes, 26 seconds
don't have the hierarchy dictating everything but on the other hand you you have to live with what you get so I think it's a leadership problem and the
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call for genuine honest Godly virtuous kind compassionate loving truthful
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leadership in the church is um is is more necessary now than ever in my lifetime so as somebody who spent your

Chapter 6: Teaching faith

10 minutes, 51 seconds
life teaching faith and spreading Faith what is the best way to teach faith it seems almost a self-contradiction in in terms because obviously faith is
10 minutes, 59 seconds
something that you have to believe or something you have to feel how can you teach belief or feeling as opposed to what you would do in say a science class would be to to you know teach the
11 minutes, 8 seconds
scientific process teach falsification teach evidence how how do you teach somebody Faith what's the best way to approach somebody with the faith that's
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really a good question Ben and the answer is this the the only faith that makes any sense is faith that has an
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object that can deliver what you expect I mean if you say I'm a person of Faith what do what do you believe in who do
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you believe in I mean that that could be the ultimate Folly if you believe in the wrong thing I mean you could stand you
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can get on a five-story building and and say I have faith that I can fly we we had that happen in our
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church just a few weeks ago we had a guy who had come off some drugs and climbed up uh on the highest point of our church
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and I guess thought he was Peter Pan or something and and flew and it was a killed himself tragic is this not a
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person from our church but somebody in the community and I don't know what he believed but if you're going to believe you better believe in the right thing
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because you you have it's the object of your faith it's the object of your faith who do you believe in what do you believe in
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what are the truths and the standards that you can anchor your life to because they're valid because they're validated
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because they're they're proved by factual evidence um otherwise it's Folly fa
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faith without the right object is is foolishness so let's say you have a skeptic who comes to you and say listen I don't believe in the gospels I don't
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believe in the veracity of the Bible prove it to me you how how exactly are you going to convince me that this is something that I should spend my my time
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on do you start with the values of the go goels or do you start with the story of the gospels what what's what's sort of the way that you lead people into
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Faith from your perspective as a pastor well there there are a number of categories you you could you could start
13 minutes, 13 seconds
with the idea of fulfilled prophecy you you can go back to the Old Testament and many many times God said something was
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going to happen and it happened I mean it happened in the Old Testament just the way God said it was going to happen
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so you you have those kinds of hist historical things you also have the miraculous element validated by eyewitnesses throughout all of
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Redemptive history throughout the Old Testament and the New Testament you you have uh you have thousands of people who
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saw the the Risen Christ for example you have the apostles who uh who were
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scattered and fearful and when Jesus was arrested and and crucified three days later he's risen from the dead and if
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you question that then you have to ask how is it that the disciples from being fearful turned into
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these bold Proclaimers of the Risen Christ and literally gave their lives in martyrdom for a message they knew was
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true so historically you can go back and you can look at the history of scripture you can see fulfilled prophecy you can
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compare the Old Testament with history that's one of the things that I studied under a guy named Charles Feinberg Jewish guy who was really basically
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trained to be a rabbi went to John's Hopkins got a PhD in archaeology studied under William Foxwell Albright the
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leading archaeologist of that era and he spent his whole career um as a former
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guy being trained for a rabbi studying biblical archaeology and show how it paralleled the actual accounts of the
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Old Testament but but I think the most compelling thing that Christianity has to offer is the the person of Jesus
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Christ the historical Christ and the fact that Christ does not come across as somebody created by a committee or a
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bunch of deceivers um the the moral character of Christ the wisdom of Christ is is so
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Transcendent so I think there are a lot of ways you go at it but I would just say this in the general sense read the
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Bible just read the Bible it it has the Ring Of Truth it defends itself it's like a lion you don't defend it you don't defend a lion you open the cage
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and let it out it'll be okay and and the scripture is like that but it's like that even morally there's something in
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the heart of people that resonates with Biblical morality obviously their sinfulness fights it but the law of God
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is written in every human heart that's part of being created in the image of God and you can fight that law you can
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resist that law you can violate that law but but that law is there that is part of being created in God's image and I
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think if your heart is open to to the truth you you go to the word of God and I've seen this now for all these years
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I've been in Ministry the Ring of biblical truth is so powerful to a
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person who honestly reads the scripture I I I just tell people all the time go to the scripture read the Bible and let
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it defend itself yeah one of the things that you mentioned there and obviously as somebody who's spoken his entire career as a Jew about why Christians need to go back to church and re-engage

Chapter 7: The real Jesus

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with the Jesus of the New Testament the the perversion of Jesus into a sort of nambi pambi uh bizarrely androgynous uh
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creation from from height ashbery is is one of the stranger things that's happened over the course of the last 50 or 60 years in American Life the attempt
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to turn him into a sort of bizarre pacifist W with nothing of morality to say people who are out there major politicians who will say that Jesus was
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out there to teach nonjudgmentalism and tolerance which is like I I I don't know if they lost the ability to read a book or if they never just understood the
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book they were reading but I don't see that at all when I read the New Testament well no uh look they didn't kill Jesus because he was so kind and
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generous and compassionate that they killed Jesus because he exposed the hypocrisy of the religion of the Jews
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and that was nothing new and you know that from Jewish history in the Old Testament I mean God had a hard time getting them to conform to to his law
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even after Deuteronomy where he said if if you do what I command you to do you'll be blessed if you don't you'll be Cur I mean we all know the history that
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you know they they they wind up worshiping Baal they wind up offering their kids to Molech you know trying to keep them on the straight and narrow was
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was a very difficult thing to do so uh when Jesus arrives there there are True
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Believers in Israel for sure uh you know Joseph and Mary his his parents Elizabeth and Zacharias the priest and
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Simeon and Anna that the at the temple when they brought Jesus in to be uh introduced to to Judaism so you have
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True Believers but but Jesus confronted false religion in no uncertain terms and
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he confronted IR religion in no uncertain terms and much of his ministry was pronouncing judgment um you you you
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either come to to God for forgiveness and salvation or you're gonna you're going to come under Divine judgment that
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that's the real Jesus I wrote a book called The Jesus you can't ignore um and that is the Jesus that the beginning of his ministry went into the
18 minutes, 54 seconds
temple and made a whip and and cleaned out the buyers and sellers and then he did it again in in the passion week at three years later at the end of his
19 minutes, 1 second
ministry and then he stood outside the temple and said not one stone is going to stand upon another in this Temple I'm going to bring it all down because it's
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corrupt and one of the one of the illustrations of that corruption was the Widow who gave her last might and Jesus
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says this Widow gives her last might she has nothing left what kind of religion takes the last coin from the hand of a
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widow and he pronounced judgment on that Temple and it wasn't long after that that the Romans came and in 70 AD and
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everybody knows what happened to Jerusalem which is exactly what Jesus said would happen in in the meantime of
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course obviously there were true Jews the New Testament says not not all Jews are true Jews in the spiritual sense in
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the sense that they love God and love his law and want to honor him so um I I think this is the big issue with
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religion Jesus said this he said you hate me because I told you your Deeds were
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evil so that that that is the that's the big issue look this is what this is what
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Biblical Judaism does it confronts evil and sin and this is what Christianity does it confronts evil and sin so if if
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you're happy with your sin and you love the darkness rather than the light why you going to why you going to go he that there has to be something going on
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in your heart where you've reached a point of deep conviction a deep dissatisfaction where you you begin to
20 minutes, 36 seconds
hate the sin and the effects of the sin and you're looking for deliverance from
20 minutes, 42 seconds
sin at that point you find a place where the gospel is being proclaimed the gospel of
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Chapter 8: Faith vs acts

21 minutes
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de.com Sunday toay so do you think that you know obviously there many distinctions between Judaism and Christianity one one of the distinctions
22 minutes, 1 second
that may have been pressed too hard upon but I'd like to get your take on it is the distinction between sort of faith and acts that that the the sort of way
22 minutes, 9 seconds
that Judaism perceives itself and my certainly describes it this way is that the acts precede the faith and basically the way that you bring people to Faith
22 minutes, 18 seconds
is through acting in the way that the Bible suggests that you you set up a track record of success by acting in moral ways and because you're now living
22 minutes, 25 seconds
in the realm of Godly morality you're living what what God wants you to live that the belief is sort of a natural manifestation of that whereas
22 minutes, 32 seconds
Christianity to con conversion in Christianity seems to be Faith first and then Works later meaning accept the Primacy of Christ and then the acts will
22 minutes, 41 seconds
naturally follow because you've accepted the authority and Primacy of Christ in in your life is that distinction too hard a distinction what what do you make of that well I think both of those
22 minutes, 50 seconds
things are true I think um how can I convince somebody to be a Christian if
22 minutes, 56 seconds
they can't see the trans I mean what am I trying to do if I I
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can't say to somebody you you need to be obedient to the law of God you need to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ you
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need to be obedient to God's law and God will bless you if my life isn't a
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demonstration of that so yes um my my
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behavior gr gives grounds for somebody else's faith oh look your life I mean
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there was a there was a philosopher in Europe who said show me your redeemed life and I might be interested in believing in your
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Redeemer I mean that's so foundational so basically if you if you're ill and you go to a doctor and the doctor finds
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a way to cure you and you go to all the people who have your same illness and say hey this guy can cure me and I'm living illustration of that mean that's
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that's the proof so so I think in a sense both of those are are true you you somebody has to have the behavior that
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validates the faith and then the faith comes in the behavior follows in in another person it make sense yeah no

Chapter 9: War on children

24 minutes, 11 seconds
that that that does make perfect sense I mean this is some of the stuff that you talk about also in the war on children is is because when you're raising kids
24 minutes, 18 seconds
it really is coincident you teach faith and act at the same exact time I mean the reason that you teach a kid that something is good or bad when the kid is
24 minutes, 25 seconds
3 four 5 years old is because God says that it is good or bad when they are three or four or five years old so they're simultaneously learning to
24 minutes, 32 seconds
believe in the veracity and truth of the moral system you're teaching and the veracity of the God who gave them that moral system and makes them successful
24 minutes, 40 seconds
in life through that that moral system and that's something that you talk about in your book is is deeply lacking we now live in a world where people have seem
24 minutes, 48 seconds
to have taken up this sort of rousan view of how you should raise children they just expose the children to the element and you don't make any choices for them at all that the best form of
24 minutes, 55 seconds
parenting is nonjudgmental parenting but that is in and of itself a form of judgmental parenting you've judged against IM moral system in favor of an
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amoral system and then you expect children to be able to navigate that yeah I mean the the the worst thing you can do with children is let them decide
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what they're going to believe and what kind of morality they're going to follow I mean you you'll have a disaster in
25 minutes, 19 seconds
your home at three years of age I mean they have to be conformed that that's why Proverbs says spare the rod and spoil the
25 minutes, 26 seconds
child you know you you have to discipline there has to be literally there has to be some pain connected to
25 minutes, 35 seconds
dis a dishonest or lying Behavior or unkindness or whatever attitudes as much
25 minutes, 44 seconds
as actions I mean I was I've been thinking about that watching the university uh conflagrations going all over the place in this country and I'm
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thinking to myself who raised these kids where is all this this massive kind
26 minutes
of uncontrollable hatred anger ignorance Rebellion
26 minutes, 6 seconds
destructiveness come from this is the product this is the product of the parents of those young people clearly
26 minutes, 15 seconds
disintegration of the family and so much of it is screaming women and um weak men
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uh who and and and abysmal ignorance and and and hatred even um and then you then
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you give them the bullhorn you know you you you give the bullhorn to the kindergarteners this makes no sense at
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all but but you're if you think that children have have been the the target of the last 20 years just look at the
26 minutes, 48 seconds
universities and they can't they can't with an undisciplined life and a life of almost hedonistic Freedom they arrive in
26 minutes, 57 seconds
a university and come under the influence of some ideological activist who can basically lead them to do
27 minutes, 5 seconds
anything he wants them to do and if it's Rebellion all the better because that that suits the immature heart so this
27 minutes, 14 seconds
this is the proof of what's been going on in in the parenting process over the last 25 years I think that so many of

Chapter 10: Wokeness and rebellion

27 minutes, 22 seconds
these protesters are representatives of a fundamentally anti-religious belief system because the religious belief system has a few key predicates a few
27 minutes, 30 seconds
key principles some of those are you do have the willpower and ability to change your own life that you're responsible
27 minutes, 38 seconds
for your own actions before God the the idea that there is a an unchanging moral system a moral right and a moral wrong
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that has nothing to do with your self-proclaimed status as as victim and uh I think there's a reason that so many of these protesters are burning the
27 minutes, 53 seconds
American flag they don't believe any of this stuff they they've decided that the system itself is fundamentally corrupt controlled from above by powerful people and they're all going to link arms and
28 minutes, 1 second
March upon the system which is why you see this bizarre spectacle of people flying gay pride Flags in solidarity with terrorist groups that kill gay
28 minutes, 8 seconds
people like it's it's not about their their common shared interests between one another it's about their common shared interest against the societal superstructure that has provided for
28 minutes, 17 seconds
their prosperity and success well you're absolutely right I mean that's absolutely right but it wouldn't matter I I it wouldn't matter
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what it was I was talking to I was talking to a guy yesterday from Brazil and he said they're fighting the same battle with wokeness and I said well
28 minutes, 34 seconds
wait a minute do do you have a sort of an oppressed category of people is it like natives of Brazil is it like some
28 minutes, 43 seconds
ethnic group and he said no it's a it's lgbtq they the the wokeness issue is
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that they are the oppressed people in the society um and it it just strikes me that when people want to rebel they find
28 minutes, 58 seconds
any reason to rebel and that's what I see in the hearts of these kids they they were raised in families where they didn't know how to face the challenges
29 minutes, 6 seconds
of this world a family is where you learn by observing you watch how your parents love each other how your parents
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resolve problems and issues uh you you you figure out how to live life by looking at the model and example of your parents and
29 minutes, 23 seconds
grandparents these kids it's as if they were it's as if they were raised in the jungle without without anybody to show
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them what to do and um somebody opened the cage and turned them all loose on the world and it could be anything that
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could sort of activate that Rebellion I remember some years ago an interview with a student who said uh I want to protest I'm looking for a good cause
29 minutes, 48 seconds
it's that kind of mentality they they they want to rebel and that Rebellion Finds Its origin in
29 minutes, 57 seconds
the fact that I'm God there is no Transcendent Authority outside of me this is how I feel and I'm going to
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demand that what I feel be considered as the the most important issue and I'm going to scream until people get the
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message yeah as I've mentioned before and as you've been talking about you know the the I think the Curative to this is in fact not just going to church
30 minutes, 20 seconds
but being involved in a church community so you know in in my community obviously I think that the Jews have this right and Jesus had it right originally

Chapter 11: Community membership

30 minutes, 27 seconds
because he's Pro Sabbath the the basic idea that on at least one day a week you are supposed to remove yourself from the world around you and you are supposed to
30 minutes, 35 seconds
be in the community with compatriots who who believe in the Living God is the way to do it so you know we don't use Electronics we all live within walking
30 minutes, 42 seconds
distance of the synagogue every seventh day we are spending 25 hours with one another engaging in everything from prayer to Bible study groups having
30 minutes, 50 seconds
lunch with one another the the problem is this that religion and Faith practice they're in the water they're in the air that's around you and when we separate
30 minutes, 58 seconds
that off from regular Life is Like These are Faith principles that I believe they're apart from me and I believe in them that's not how most people historically have lived their faith it
31 minutes, 6 seconds
really is not about what you think it's about what you do and what you are in the world right the the way that I engage with my community and the way my kids engage with my communities they are
31 minutes, 14 seconds
engaged in the community from literally the day they're born right in Judaism obviously we have circumcision on day eight and the thing that we say during
31 minutes, 22 seconds
the circumcision ceremony is that that the child should be dedicated meaning to the to the wedding canopy to
31 minutes, 30 seconds
the Torah and to Good Deeds these are things that are obligated on a kid at the eth day like from their when they're born they're born into a system of
31 minutes, 38 seconds
obligations and social networks and social Fabric and when you rob children of this they become free radicals and they don't know where to go and then
31 minutes, 45 seconds
they do end up creating identities around terrible things well and that is all exactly right and that that's why I
31 minutes, 53 seconds
wrote the book The War on children the the war on children starts well it really starts in not wanting to have
32 minutes
children I mean you don't want to have children you know buy a dog uh and then it moves to if you do get pregnant kill
32 minutes, 7 seconds
the kill the child in your womb U and if the child survives you know let the culture raise him um it's it's easier
32 minutes, 16 seconds
for people I mean it's amazing it's easier for people to take a kid and put him on a drug than it is to turn off the cell
32 minutes, 24 seconds
phone it makes no sense I mean it's just one thing after another after another leads to the irresponsibility but you're
32 minutes, 31 seconds
absolutely right God's complete plan based on the family father the mother
32 minutes, 38 seconds
loving each other and raising the children according to the law of God so that their lives could be blessed and so
32 minutes, 46 seconds
they could have well-ordered societies and and God has built in some things like even in an individual sense the
32 minutes, 53 seconds
human conscience you know it screams at you accuse using you or excusing you based on your conduct that that's that's
33 minutes, 1 second
the law of God in the heart and the the next barrier is the family where the father's Authority and the mother's
33 minutes, 8 seconds
Authority as we find out in Proverbs even to the point of corporal punishment if need be um is part of channeling that
33 minutes, 17 seconds
child down the right pathway and if it gets past that then the society steps in and God even gave the society um the
33 minutes, 25 seconds
sword they don't bear the sword for nothing they have a certain amount of authority to coerce people to obedience
33 minutes, 33 seconds
and Conformity that allows for well ordered societies to function so God God has done just built into the common
33 minutes, 41 seconds
Grace of of the world things mechanisms that help correct people and put them in the path of blessing and when all of that
33 minutes, 50 seconds
disintegrates when you reject the police when you reject the authority when you reject any Authority and all authority
33 minutes, 57 seconds
when you have no parental consistency no moral leadership in your home where
34 minutes, 5 seconds
there is no morality at all I mean you can believe whatever you want about morality and and think that the
34 minutes, 11 seconds
consequences are going to be good in spite of the fact that you violated the law of God who is the creator who knows
34 minutes, 19 seconds
how his creation functions best when when all of that is disintegrated and really you're right at the bottom of all of it is a rejection of God they don't

Chapter 12: Identity and technology

34 minutes, 28 seconds
want a Divine Transcendent Sovereign judge ruling on their lives yeah and in
34 minutes, 36 seconds
rejection of God lies rejection of man this is the part that I think the the post-enlightenment thinkers has got totally wrong I mean the the the basic idea is that God created man in a
34 minutes, 44 seconds
particular way in his own image which means that you do have a nature and that nature is in fact fixed as a human being
34 minutes, 51 seconds
in certain particular ways and that God has created roles and jobs for you across your life I mean if you go back to the Book of Genesis God puts Adam in
34 minutes, 59 seconds
the garden and he's actually got a job in the garden right he's he's meant to cultivate the garden which is a beautiful place everything's fine it
35 minutes, 6 seconds
precedes man man gets there and it's his job to actually maintain and cultivate the garden he fails in that job because he violates God's commandment and he gets thrown out and so what does God do
35 minutes, 15 seconds
God gives him more work God says you're going to have to till the ground God says that you're going to have to die at some point you're going have to be a father now right doesn't have kids until he leaves the garden right this idea
35 minutes, 23 seconds
that that human beings they find their identity in the things and roles that they they play across the course of a lifetime not in how they feel that that
35 minutes, 31 seconds
is the fundamental distinction in terms of identity that our society I think is breaking down upon it's foundering because it used to be that a human being the way that I've talked about this I
35 minutes, 40 seconds
say you want to know what what human beings are and what we aspire to be go to a graveyard go to a cemetery and look at what's on The Headstone what's on The Headstone is always loving father loving
35 minutes, 49 seconds
husband it's the thing that you did for the members of your family for your community and for the world that actually Define you but the way that we Define ourselves online is how do I feel
35 minutes, 58 seconds
today it never says on your headstone felt terrible right it never said there's no emoji on The Headstone right your feelings are irrelevant to what
36 minutes, 6 seconds
your life actually is supposed to mean in front of God and in front of your family yeah I don't know if you've seen Jonathan H's book on the anxious
36 minutes, 14 seconds
generation but but if he looks at that whole issue of the the the cell phone and the internet from 2010 to 2015 has
36 minutes, 22 seconds
this Mega shift in dealing with the teenagers and young children where they shifted away from building relationships
36 minutes, 29 seconds
real relationships with real people to building bizarre kinds of uh relationships with people on the
36 minutes, 38 seconds
internet of falsified fanciful you know fabricated kinds of things that uh took
36 minutes, 45 seconds
over their lives and you can see it from that time on what you have as a result of that is all these teenagers who have
36 minutes, 53 seconds
anxiety and bipolar and and add whatever it is and ultimately you know the escalating figures in suicide and
37 minutes, 3 seconds
self harm and all of that because they're they're disconnected from what makes life life what makes life
37 minutes, 11 seconds
fulfilling and that's real relationships with people that you love and love you yeah one one of the things that that you've been hit with that's been

Chapter 13: Politicization of faith

37 minutes, 19 seconds
fascinating to watch is what I think is an enormous amount of projection on the part of certain people in politics and that is this accusation that religious
37 minutes, 27 seconds
leader ERS are getting too political and that that seems a bizarre sort of projection because again the thing that that I've seen over the course of my
37 minutes, 34 seconds
lifetime is stuff that was considered radically uncontroversial when I was growing up is now considered radically controversial if you maintain exactly the same position in 2024 that you
37 minutes, 43 seconds
maintained in say the year 1995 so if you maintained in 1995 as any religious Christian would have going all the way
37 minutes, 50 seconds
back to the time of Jesus and for a thousand years before that under Judaism that for example marriages between a man
37 minutes, 57 seconds
and a woman that was considered apolitical in 1995 today if you're a pastor and you say that now you're politicizing matters or if you say that
38 minutes, 5 seconds
that polit that politics of abortion that this matters because abortion matters to Christians now you're considered political what do you make of the projection that you saying the same
38 minutes, 14 seconds
thing that you've always said is now political as opposed to people on the left who are just you know they're just saying political stuff but that's what they do because they're political and
38 minutes, 21 seconds
it's and it really you should B out so I grew up in a world where Democrats had
38 minutes, 28 seconds
a sociological view they had an economic view Republicans had a sociological and economic view there was never a moral
38 minutes, 35 seconds
issues it was you know it was um the the workforce and and the the ownership that those were the two
38 minutes, 43 seconds
parties the Republicans were the ones that created the jobs and the Democrats are the ones that that work the jobs and finding out a balance there you know was
38 minutes, 53 seconds
what the political leaders were supposed to achieve that all went away and early in the in this century when politicians
39 minutes, 2 seconds
began to make their platforms moral or immoral from my standpoint when when you
39 minutes, 10 seconds
start saying it's Pro lgbtq it's Pro homosexual it's um
39 minutes, 18 seconds
pro-abortion it's Pro transgender you know we got your back we got your back
39 minutes, 25 seconds
um everything has shifted from the economic you know definitions of the
39 minutes, 31 seconds
past into these moral issues so as a Christian I I'm I'm still talking on a
39 minutes, 38 seconds
moral level it just so happens that politicians have stepped into the moral
39 minutes, 44 seconds
world and created chaos so for me I I have to vote for what is righteous I
39 minutes, 51 seconds
mean I don't always have a clear-cut uh option but you take the best of the options that are put before you but so
39 minutes, 59 seconds
we all want to uphold righteousness in this Society because we want to represent God rightly and accurately and
40 minutes, 7 seconds
if Christians and people of the faith in Judaism hold to the law of God then that should show up in how they vote it it
40 minutes, 17 seconds
should show up in their willingness to say I'm going to stand against this trend because it violates the word of
40 minutes, 24 seconds
God that that's not Christian nationalism it just so happens that the politicians have basically
40 minutes, 33 seconds
co-opted sin and turned it into their platform which forces people who
40 minutes, 40 seconds
understand a biblical definition of sin to be the enemy it's not we're trying to take over the world it's not we're
40 minutes, 47 seconds
trying to take over the United States it's we're just trying to uphold righteousness that attempt to treat
40 minutes, 55 seconds
everyone who is Christian and voting as a Christian nationalist is Total Insanity I mean the reality is that this country's Liberties were rooted in
41 minutes, 2 seconds
Christian virtue I mean that is just a reality all of the founders including the founders who considered themselves more deistic believed in the virtues of the Bible I mean even Thomas Jefferson
41 minutes, 11 seconds
who is maybe the most deistic of the founders his great attempt was to strip the Bible of of Miracles but to maintain the morality of the Bible which of course I don't think is quite possible
41 minutes, 20 seconds
but he attempted to do it because he understood the inherent value of Christian morality the attempt to say that Christian morality itself which is
41 minutes, 27 seconds
the basis of of all of American development that that is somehow if you want to maintain that an aspect of Christian nationalism as though you're a
41 minutes, 36 seconds
theocrat forcing everyone in the United States to convert or die which is the attempt by the media to to recast the this term Christian nationalism into
41 minutes, 44 seconds
something that it really is not it's it's such an orwellian exercise the attempt to say that if you believe in Jesus or you go to synagogue or you go
41 minutes, 52 seconds
to church and you believe that the biblical morality upon which our entire civilization is based is good and ought to be effectuated in our culture and
42 minutes, 1 second
ought to be supported by the government on a broad level without in in sectarian ways forcing people to adhere to particular religious belief that if you
42 minutes, 9 seconds
believe those things that you are somehow a a 13th century Catholic theocrat or something like that's that's such a bizarre take and obviously meant
42 minutes, 18 seconds
to dissuade religious people from even engaging in politics at all yeah and that's the point um they like to keep us
42 minutes, 26 seconds
out they want keep us out of the public discourse that that's that's for sure that that is the legacy of

Chapter 14: Israel and judgment

42 minutes, 34 seconds
secularism I mean that's where secularism takes you uh religion is an affront religion is an attack on on
42 minutes, 43 seconds
secularism and you have this secular society unwilling to bend to the law of God I mean you have the president saying
42 minutes, 51 seconds
if you're transgender we've got your back and you know when I heard him say that my reaction was what are you going to do push them over the cliff from the
43 minutes
backside I mean what you're doing for somebody who's in that kind of transgression and then that kind of pattern you ought to have their front
43 minutes, 9 seconds
and you ought to stop them from what they're doing rather than have their back and shove them down that path any further but secularism hates the truth
43 minutes, 19 seconds
and uh it will do anything it can to to label it and vilify it and you know that's what we have going on you know one of the things Ben I I wanted to
43 minutes, 28 seconds
mention to you um there's a story in the Old Testament that is pretty compelling when when
43 minutes, 36 seconds
Israel came out of Egypt after the Captivity and they were headed toward the promised land the first group of terrorist that attacked the Jewish
43 minutes, 45 seconds
attacked the stragglers that it says you remember um were the the amalekites the amalec amalec was a
43 minutes, 53 seconds
grandson of Esau Esau had an ax to grind obviously because Jacob got the Covenant right and Esau sold his birth right for
44 minutes, 3 seconds
a for a meal so there was some hostility there but you you go couple of generations later and you've got amalec
44 minutes, 11 seconds
he's the first terrorist and he leads a group that raids them and and God says you they have to be destroyed they
44 minutes, 21 seconds
have to be destroyed and in Deuteronomy 25: 17- 19 as Israel stands on the edge
44 minutes, 28 seconds
of going into the promised land after wandering in the wilderness God says to them I want you to destroy the amalekites I want you to destroy all of
44 minutes, 36 seconds
them all of them I want you to destroy their animals and he goes through the whole Litany of things because they are
44 minutes, 44 seconds
a deadly deadly force in this world and I need you to be my instrument of
44 minutes, 51 seconds
judgment well I don't know if you remember the story they um they battled the malachit 1st Samuel 15 and Saul was
45 minutes
the king and Saul was told to to to wipe them out and he didn't do that he allowed some of them to survive and he
45 minutes, 7 seconds
allowed AAG the amalaki king to live and he didn't he didn't kill him he didn't
45 minutes, 14 seconds
cut the head off fast forward to the end of the 15th chapter Samuel comes up and
45 minutes, 20 seconds
Samuel says Saul you didn't kill AAG and then Samuel does this amazing thing he hacks AAG to
45 minutes, 29 seconds
Pieces which is is an amazing act and he did it because God told him to do it
45 minutes, 36 seconds
that group of people were so dangerous they were so destructive and so deadly and so threatening to the plans of God
45 minutes, 46 seconds
for Israel that he wanted them wiped out they didn't do that fast forward to the
45 minutes, 53 seconds
Book of Esther few hundred years later and what have you got in Esther you've got
45 minutes, 59 seconds
hmon who is an agagite who is A from the line of AAG in the amalaki and he
46 minutes, 7 seconds
plans genocide for the entire Jewish race right in the Book of Esther and
46 minutes, 15 seconds
Mori and Esther come to the Rescue It wasn't until the Persians completely wiped out the
46 minutes, 22 seconds
amalekites that the that God's will was fulfilled filled in that judgment now you might not like
46 minutes, 29 seconds
the fact that God is a judge but when God determines that I'm going to protect my People Israel and you're going to attack My
46 minutes, 38 seconds
People Israel I have a plan for my People Israel as the New Testament says so all Israel will be saved there's coming a kingdom he will fulfill every
46 minutes, 47 seconds
promise he ever gave to David every promise he ever gave to Abraham every promise ever coming through the prophets will be fulfilled when Messiah
46 minutes, 55 seconds
establishes his kingdom God is going to preserve that people and if you are a threat to that
47 minutes, 2 seconds
people historically speaking God says you need to be removed and I think about that story so often when I think
47 minutes, 12 seconds
about this is like the modern version of of amalec and until they are wiped out
47 minutes, 19 seconds
this is just going to go on and on and on and on and I I know I don't want to be callous about things but God has in
47 minutes, 28 seconds
his sovereignty made a decision for the preservation of Israel into the future
47 minutes, 35 seconds
into the kingdom of Messiah that's his plan that's his promise you can be a part of
47 minutes, 43 seconds
that by coming to the Messiah and being a part of his kingdom but if you D
47 minutes, 50 seconds
attempt to destroy the very people that are the heart and soul of God's plan
47 minutes, 58 seconds
then you come under the Judgment of God and I I think Israel is acting even though they're you know a secular nation
48 minutes, 5 seconds
in in in the large sense because salvation is individual not National I I
48 minutes, 11 seconds
I think they desire to protect and preserve them and to fight in a in a
48 minutes, 20 seconds
really a Terminal Way against those who would destroy them follows the Divine path pattern of God for the preservation

Chapter 15: Theological clarity

48 minutes, 28 seconds
of that people until he fulfills his plan for them your point with regard to is particularly true and I just want to clarify here when you have a force that
48 minutes, 35 seconds
is dedicated to the extermination of every Jew on the planet which is what openly says if you are a member of that terror group the moral position for
48 minutes, 43 seconds
anyone would be to end that terror group and Destroy them wholesale and Israel has done actually an extraordinary job
48 minutes, 51 seconds
in attempting to distinguish civilians even civilians who are sympathetic to from members of themselves the fact that
48 minutes, 58 seconds
there are so many people in the west who seem to lack moral Clarity in what is easily the most morally clear conflict of our time is a source of astonishment
49 minutes, 6 seconds
to me but I think really can only be explained by again an anti-biblical perspective that substitutes uh A Narrative of victimology in favor of a
49 minutes, 14 seconds
narrative of right and wrong no that that's exactly right but you you also know in the Old Testament God said to the children of Israel when
49 minutes, 23 seconds
you go into the land destroy the amalec kites destroy them because I'm I'm bringing judgment down on their on their
49 minutes, 32 seconds
heads for for their sins I mean they're like a cancer in the world and we all understand everybody's going to die
49 minutes, 40 seconds
right we're all going to die the wages of sin is death Ezekiel said the soul that sins it shall die um and in the
49 minutes, 48 seconds
conflicts of life in this world death is a reality and it it can happen the the good news is death doesn't have to lead
49 minutes, 57 seconds
to eternal hell it can lead to Eternal heaven and that's where Christianity comes in and says in Christ there is the
50 minutes, 6 seconds
promise of forgiveness of sin everlasting life in heaven and when you die that that's where you're going to go
50 minutes, 15 seconds
so and I think about that with um the people we worry about what collateral damage is going to be done the the
50 minutes, 23 seconds
message is look you don't know when you're going to die and you need to make sure your life is right with God you you need to make sure your sins are forgiven
50 minutes, 31 seconds
and you have received the gift of Salvation so that when that comes you you can enter into his presence so
50 minutes, 39 seconds
preaching the gospel um is you know what the church's role in the world is is to be but I but I think at the same time we
50 minutes, 48 seconds
have to warn the world that death is coming to everybody you may die in a raid as collateral damage you you may
50 minutes, 57 seconds
die in an accident a disease it's inevitable it's inevitable uh God there's going to be wages for sin we
51 minutes, 5 seconds
just need to make sure that we're prepared to enter into God's heaven so let's talk for a second about Jews and Christians we referenced it at the top
51 minutes, 13 seconds
last time we spoke we had some extensive conversations on the on the differentiation between Jews and and Christians obviously I'm not offended At All by the fact that Christians want me
51 minutes, 21 seconds
saved I'm I'm quite flattered by it that people care enough for my soul that they want me saved after death um and so I I've never found you know anybody
51 minutes, 29 seconds
attempting to convert me to be offensive or or dangerous in in any way again I think that that's that's quite a good thing there's been an attempt I think to
51 minutes, 37 seconds
divide Jews from Christians by by some nefarious actors out there uh who can't hold two thoughts in their head at one
51 minutes, 45 seconds
time uh the thoughts being that yes Christians would love Jews to convert and the second thought being that also Jews and Christians have an awful lot in common uh you can hold both those
51 minutes, 54 seconds
thoughts in your head at the same exact time what do you think that Christians relations with Jews should be like what how should Christianity approach Jews

Chapter 16: Conclusion

52 minutes, 1 second
well first of all Ben I have to say thank you for letting me come back again I was pretty direct last time we talked
52 minutes, 10 seconds
and I know that's what you're referring to I didn't hold back you asked me then what's the difference between the Jews and the Christians and I said it's your
52 minutes, 17 seconds
view of Christ and that that is still the issue um the Apostle Paul said I
52 minutes, 24 seconds
could wish myself a curse for the Salvation of My People Israel so you know that's what I carry in my heart do
52 minutes, 33 seconds
I want you to be saved through faith in Christ yes do I do want do I want the Jewish people to be saved do I want them
52 minutes, 40 seconds
to come to the truth that Jesus is actually their Messiah he has to be because he fulfills Isaiah 53 he
52 minutes, 48 seconds
fulfills so many other Old Testament promises because he was a miracle worker who rose from the dead he validated all of that do do I want the Jews to believe
52 minutes, 56 seconds
yes Paul he actually said I could wish myself a curse for the Salvation of My
53 minutes, 3 seconds
People Israel um so yes we we want the Jews to come to the knowledge of Christ as their
53 minutes, 11 seconds
Messiah um that that is um that is a basically driven by Love U when people
53 minutes, 20 seconds
people um ask me about what I feel about the Jews my response is uh you know unfortunately I was born a gentile but
53 minutes, 29 seconds
I'm trying to overcome that um everybody I love the most in in history is is Jewish you can start with you can start
53 minutes, 37 seconds
with Abraham and run the gamut all the way to the New Testament of Jesus and the apostles and uh I think true
53 minutes, 44 seconds
Christians have the profound love for the Jewish people because they understand that God loves them in a
53 minutes, 53 seconds
unique way you know God said I didn't choose you because you were greater than any other people he said I chose you because I set my love upon you Richard
54 minutes, 2 seconds
wolf years ago said how odd of God to choose the Jews which was you know in a sense I
54 minutes, 10 seconds
suppose easy to understand statement why why that well the answer is God says because I chose to love them I chose
54 minutes, 19 seconds
Abraham and I chose his descendants because I'm God and I can do what I want and they're the ones I chose but the
54 minutes, 27 seconds
Fulfillment of that choice as far as Christianity is concerned comes in the Salvation that comes through the Messiah
54 minutes, 36 seconds
the Lord Jesus Christ so the prayer of Christians is always that the the Jewish people would see Christ as their Messiah
54 minutes, 45 seconds
and all I can ask of Jewish people is read the four gospels um just just keep
54 minutes, 52 seconds
reading it and um see if you don't find the Awakening in your own heart that he is in fact the Messiah that he claimed
55 minutes
to be I don't think there's any gimmick I don't think there's any strategy I I don't think we need to get you into an auditorium and play some mood music to
55 minutes, 9 seconds
convince you I I think read the New Testament that's all I can say that that is the declar that is the revelation of
55 minutes, 18 seconds
the Messiah and you read it and and open your heart to the Lord and see if he doesn't convince you that Jes Jesus is
55 minutes, 27 seconds
your Messiah that that's the joy that I would have for Israel for you yeah the uh the response that Jews usually give to that poem how odd of God to choose
55 minutes, 36 seconds
the Jews is it's not that odd the Jews chose God uh which is uh which is also accurate to uh to the har to to Mount Si
55 minutes, 44 seconds
and and the Jews opting in with by by saying we will do and we will hear at Mount Si and I think that that in the end for America you know that's what I'd
55 minutes, 53 seconds
love to see is a a more Christian America in which more people choose God that's going to require more leadership like yours it's going to require more powerful Christian leadership it's going
56 minutes, 2 seconds
to require people who are willing to engage in community-minded ways it's going to require actually putting obligations on people and this is something that I discover with my own
56 minutes, 10 seconds
children every single day I have four kids under the age of 10 and if you don't give them anything to do they Fritz out and and I think that we're a
56 minutes, 18 seconds
society that has given our kids nothing to do we give them no duties we give them no obligations we give them no tasks what what kids want more than
56 minutes, 25 seconds
anything is is a series of responsibilities there's nothing kids want more than responsibility and giving them responsibility giving adults
56 minutes, 33 seconds
responsibility is the thing that's missing in a society that's completely now about lack of responsibility yeah just to validate
56 minutes, 41 seconds
that uh Grace Community Church uh where I've been Pastor for over 50 years here um when covid came we had to shut
56 minutes, 49 seconds
everything down for a few weeks but then we decided this isn't right you know the government is not the head of the church
56 minutes, 56 seconds
Christ is so we opened the church and I remember the day we opened the church on that Sunday we had over a thousand children we had balloons everywhere
57 minutes, 5 seconds
right in the middle of covid as you remember we defied the state of California we got into a lawsuit we won the the lawsuit the the the the church
57 minutes, 14 seconds
just began to explode at that point we've probably had 3,000 new people come
57 minutes, 20 seconds
to our church since that point and the the draw turns out to be amilies with
57 minutes, 27 seconds
children so that in the last two years we have created um two homeschool
57 minutes, 35 seconds
programs where parents we we work with parents in two different groups uh for homeschool we have started two hybrid
57 minutes, 43 seconds
school which means half the week it's homeschool half the week it's you know classroom we actually now have a
57 minutes, 52 seconds
fullblown k through 12 full Christian school so we have five different options
58 minutes
to train children um because parents are saying you got to help us we we have to
58 minutes, 7 seconds
escape the threat of public education and um if you want to build a
58 minutes, 14 seconds
church you know go after the children be a protector of the children it's amazing how families will gather well Pastor
58 minutes, 23 seconds
MacArthur it's as always an honor to see you it's wonderful to spend the time with you I really appreciate the time and the Insight oh my pleasure we miss
58 minutes, 30 seconds
you in Southern California yeah well uh I I miss you but not Southern California really appreciate
58 minutes, 37 seconds
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58 minutes, 45 seconds
it the Ben Shapiro Sunday special is produced by Savannah Morris and Matt Camp associate producers are Jake Pollock and John Crick editing is by
58 minutes, 54 seconds
Chris Ridge audio is mixed by by Mike Corina camera and lighting is by Zach ginta hair makeup and wardrobe by Fabiola Christina title Graphics are by
59 minutes, 3 seconds
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59 minutes, 11 seconds
producer Jeremy boring the Ben Shapiro show Sunday special is a daily wire production copyright daily wire 2024
59 minutes, 21 seconds
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